DOUG BRUGGE

May 2nd, 2006.

John LeKay:  When and what inspired your book and photographs, "Memories Come To Us In the Rain and the Wind"?

Doug Brugge:  Inspired seems to suggest that there was a unique moment which I suddenly had a revelation -- like a little light bulb went of in my head. I think it was a little more of a process than that. But I think the initial interest came from a visit I did with my father, to the Navajo nation.  Probably in 1993, or something like that. When I read for the first time the problems that the uranium miners were facing. The kernel of an idea was in my mind after that, which was to do some kind of photography and oral history project that would help convey their story to a larger audience. Along the way -- particularly meeting with Timothy Benally and Phil Harrison, and incorporating their ideas and trying to make this a project that we could write grants for, that could be funded -- it got fleshed out a lot. I wouldn't say it got changed per se, but I think it got developed a lot more beyond the initial kernel of an idea.

JL: When you say that you wanted to covey this story to a larger audience. What kind of audience were you thinking off?

DB: That changed over time. Originally I was thinking it would help the communities with compensation. As time went on and especially once we had published the first edition of the book, I realized that there were a lot of audiences out there. The Navajo communities themselves were an audience. The other uranium miners that
were not Navajo were also an audience. The policy makers that I originally thought were also an audience. Many people: like students and individuals who were touched by the story in some way, emotionally, politically in the ways that it inspired them or upset them the way people had been treated. Academics were an audience. There were a lot of people in the universities who saw it as interesting. So I think there were a wide wide range of audiences that evolved over time. The original thought was that it was a tool that would help promote the interest of the affected communities.

JL:  How difficult was it to arrange for these people to do the interviews?  Was there some reluctance or resistance at first?

DB: No, but what was potentially a problem was would their be any Navajo people, who would want to be a partner on the project. If I had gone out there and nobody was interested in the project, I think it would have died at that point.  It turned out that Timothy and Phil were interested in the project. So because of that, once they were going around looking for people to interview, there was not resistance. There were some people that turned them down. Very few.

JL:  Were Kerr-McGee were the principal owners of these mines that were primarily held responsible for all the cancer deaths and deformities?

DB: Kerr McGee was one of the mining companies. There were a bunch of others. Kerr McGee as one of the larger ones. There were a bunch of lager ones. The Vanadium Corporation of America was another one. In terms of the impact these mining companies had on the miners and the mining communities. The mining companies had not largely been held accountable in any way.

JL: To date?

DB: I'm not sure; there have been some lawsuits by communities. There is at least one decision I am aware off that favored in community but I'm not aware off where this law suits stand at this time.

JL:  I read this quote on your site.  When it rains and when it thaws in the springtime, a lot of the water washes into the riverbed and flows down into the stream and eventually comes out on the farms and does other damage. It's like a chain reaction. The food you raise may have some radiation, and you eat it. They feel that a lot of this is taking place right now because of the way they handled the initial mining.  Do you know how much and how many of these uranium mines have been reclaimed?

DB: I haven't been out to the mines recently, so I do not have any direct personal observation on them recently, but I do know the Navajo Nation did a fair amount of work. Doing some reclamation. Now what that amounted to was closing up the open holes.  Covering them up in various ways. Maybe digging up some of the tailings and putting them back in the mine. What was done, I think it is good, whatever they did. It was not of the standard of what would happen at a major hazardous waste site; in terms of thoroughness and clean up and attention to detail. So the problem remains. I think you are right, even after they did that, not just the water but the wind is blowing this stuff around. It's been out in the open for decades. So there's already a lot that been transported by the elements away from the original site. I actually have a graduate student, Jamie De Lamos, who is starting to work with some folks at the University of New Mexico to begin to look into the transport of uranium from the mine
sites. How much is transported and deposited and that sort of thing.

That's an area that deserves more research and investigation and the folks at the University of New Mexico just got major federal research grant to look into this. I think that their work and work of my student will help to figure that out better.

JL: Yes that does sound like a good thing. What is the Office of Navajo Uranium Workers?

DB: Its an office that is funded by the Navajo Nation and its based in the town of Shiprock.  Also I think they have a satellite office in Tuba city, Arizona. I think there core function is to help to assist miners and their families in applying for federal compensation in seeking the compensation, because just for applying for things you are
entitled to, in a federal bureaucracy can be a daunting task. So I think its a very admirable thing the tribe set up. The nation set up this to assist miner and their families to help them through the application process. Also to keep a record of who are the miner, and mill workers and who they are.

JL:   Radiation Exposure Compensation Act (RECA) says.The 1990 Act provided fixed payments in the following amounts: $50,000 to individuals residing or working "downwind" of The Nevada Test Site; $75,000 for workers participating in above-ground nuclear weapons tests; and $100,000 for uranium miners.  Was there any other forms of compensation or other people that were affected by this like family members, children etc.

DB: There's not compensation for family members or community members or children. Your right, that is a point that is sometimes raised by the effected communities that there should be compensation for the families as well. The 1990 RECA act amount of payment was changed in 2000 to 150,000 for the miners, retroactively as well as going forward. Also mill workers and above ground miners that were excluded in the original act were made eligible, but children and families have never been made
eligible for that compensation. 

 

JL: How much attention has our book brought to this issue, through the media and the press?

DB: It has had some press converge, Its interesting, some of its has been international. There was an article in Japan and there was one in Australia and one in Siberia, so there are a number of international things which sort of surprised me. I didn't expect it to have the geographic reach. I thought it would be more just within the US. Some of the press converge has been in the form of more that, a reporter would ask us about some other uranium mining issue, and we would get quoted in the article. So it's not direct converge of the book. Timothy and I still do get asked to comment in the media. Some of that is because Timothy and Phil have other credentials that make them leaders an notable people in terms of Navajo uranium mining communities, I think the book also raised their visibility, some what and also raised my visibility
somewhat in terms of the media.

JL:  Are you ware if the NY Times or the Washington Post has covered any of this?

DB: There is a reporter at the Los Angles Times that has been talking to us for about two years now. I would say there is more converge in the western United States, than more of a national level coverage.

JL: Why do you think that there hasn't been that much national coverage?

DB: For some reason, there has been some coverage nationally but most recently around the revisions of the compensation act.  The national media in my opinion has a short attention span. They are attracted to things that are catchy. Grinding and plodding along does not interest them. Maybe this issue is a little esoteric as well.   It tends not to gab their attention as much. Something like this, even if it does come up in the national media tends to come up once here and there and then
it disappears. It’s not the kind of story that they would follow with resolve. To me it reflects a lot of the market pressures in the media where rather than going for the important story, they frequently going for the story that will get viewers or readers and advertising. I don't think this is that flashy. To me it's a profound issue but it's not that flashy.